Awhile back (2 decades, ooofff) I wrote to Jaak Panksepp about my observations:
Hello Professor Panksepp,
I've been reading your *Affective Neuroscience* as preparation for elaborating a theory concerning the effects of psychedelic drugs. But reading the chapter on sleep and arousal has motivated me to report to you a personal experience with dreams that has occurred several times, an experience which appears to contradict the current view that most dreams are "not recorded in memory." You refer to this accepted belief at least once in the book, so I thought you might be interested in a possible counter-claim.
I have noticed that during dreaming, I have access to memories of past dreams, some quite old, and that these memories as far as I can tell have never occurred in waking consciousness. The phenomenon has happened on several occasions, and with enough recall immediately upon waking, that I feel it is something that others might also notice if they were advised of the possibility. It suggests perhaps that we cannot remember dreams because we have no pathway of cues relative to the waking state to get to them, rather than that dreams are not recorded in memory. A couple of times the effect was quite astounding, which is why I then came to watch for it: memories of quite unusual dreams I had long ago that surely were never remembered in waking consciousness, reappearing during a current dream and eliciting such surprise (during the dream!) that the entire phenomenon remained quite clear upon waking.
His reply:
Hi Peter,
Thanks for sharing your interesting dream experiences. . . I have never heard of such a thing but "state-dependent" memory is fairly common in memory research and there is no reason it should not occur during dreaming. I myself did have a short period in my life, where I was convinced that I was having the same dream continuing on multiple nights, and I guess that would qualify for such a memory effect also. I have asked several other good dream reporters whether they have had such reminiscence experiences, and none has yet told me that they do.
I guess the general principle of dream related amnesia still holds, but these odd-ball experiences tell us how much we still have to learn. Indeed, Mark Solms in London has now been arguing for the dissociation of REM sleep and dreaming, and I am convinced that the linkage is certainly not as obligatory as many of us once believed. Indeed, with this dissociation, one must always worry about the possibility that there are several distinct type of dreams, and perhaps the phenomenon you describe is restricted to one type only. The next issue of Behavioral and Brain Sciences will have a full treatment of such issues (5 target articles with lot of commentaries). Many of us have been waiting eagerly for the belated appearance of the last issue of 2000.
That is a great exchange Peter. Thanks for sharing. I am surprised that this is almost arcane knowledge.
Best,
G
I have noticed that occasionally I remember older dreams in new dreams. Anyone else?
Here's an issue of Behavioral and Brain Sciences - all on dreaming.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/issue/A837A9D92CE558F7F12D4EEAB7791441
Awhile back (2 decades, ooofff) I wrote to Jaak Panksepp about my observations:
Hello Professor Panksepp,
I've been reading your *Affective Neuroscience* as preparation for elaborating a theory concerning the effects of psychedelic drugs. But reading the chapter on sleep and arousal has motivated me to report to you a personal experience with dreams that has occurred several times, an experience which appears to contradict the current view that most dreams are "not recorded in memory." You refer to this accepted belief at least once in the book, so I thought you might be interested in a possible counter-claim.
I have noticed that during dreaming, I have access to memories of past dreams, some quite old, and that these memories as far as I can tell have never occurred in waking consciousness. The phenomenon has happened on several occasions, and with enough recall immediately upon waking, that I feel it is something that others might also notice if they were advised of the possibility. It suggests perhaps that we cannot remember dreams because we have no pathway of cues relative to the waking state to get to them, rather than that dreams are not recorded in memory. A couple of times the effect was quite astounding, which is why I then came to watch for it: memories of quite unusual dreams I had long ago that surely were never remembered in waking consciousness, reappearing during a current dream and eliciting such surprise (during the dream!) that the entire phenomenon remained quite clear upon waking.
His reply:
Hi Peter,
Thanks for sharing your interesting dream experiences. . . I have never heard of such a thing but "state-dependent" memory is fairly common in memory research and there is no reason it should not occur during dreaming. I myself did have a short period in my life, where I was convinced that I was having the same dream continuing on multiple nights, and I guess that would qualify for such a memory effect also. I have asked several other good dream reporters whether they have had such reminiscence experiences, and none has yet told me that they do.
I guess the general principle of dream related amnesia still holds, but these odd-ball experiences tell us how much we still have to learn. Indeed, Mark Solms in London has now been arguing for the dissociation of REM sleep and dreaming, and I am convinced that the linkage is certainly not as obligatory as many of us once believed. Indeed, with this dissociation, one must always worry about the possibility that there are several distinct type of dreams, and perhaps the phenomenon you describe is restricted to one type only. The next issue of Behavioral and Brain Sciences will have a full treatment of such issues (5 target articles with lot of commentaries). Many of us have been waiting eagerly for the belated appearance of the last issue of 2000.
Again, thanks for sharing all this with me.
Jaak
Yes indeed!
so good. thank you. :-)
https://youtu.be/r-odIIQORQ4
Thank you kind Sir!
Questions and Dreams make us wonder, what is real and unreal. One day I hope to find my answer. Thank you for your thoughts.